Landlord forgot to pay the Wifi Bill

[BYANYOTHER NAME]

So internet was down. But interestingly I could STILL connect and browser
although much slower using TOR or any encrypted VPN. Why is that?

[Johann Beretta]

Post by BYANYOTHER NAME
So internet was down. But interestingly I could STILL connect and browser
although much slower using TOR or any encrypted VPN. Why is that?

Obviously the internet was not down. It's not like your computer was
browsing by fucking telepathy. Your wifi may have been down, but then
it becomes obvious you were connection another way. Cellular? Hardline?
Ad-Hoc connection via another computer that did have a connection? Hotspot?

You cannot use the internet if the "Internet is down". That's like
claiming you can use electricity when the electricity is out. If your
house has power when the power is out, then you're getting it another
way; generator, solar, batteries, something.. It doesn't spring into
existence out of the ether.

[BYANYOTHER NAME]

Post by Johann Beretta

Post by BYANYOTHER NAME
So internet was down. But interestingly I could STILL connect and
brows

er

Post by BYANYOTHER NAME
although much slower using TOR or any encrypted VPN. Why is that?

Obviously the internet was not down. It's not like your computer was
browsing by fucking telepathy. Your wifi may have been down, but then
it becomes obvious you were connection another way. Cellular?
Hardline? Ad-Hoc connection via another computer that did have a
connection? Hotspot?
You cannot use the internet if the "Internet is down". That's like
claiming you can use electricity when the electricity is out. If your
house has power when the power is out, then you're getting it another
way; generator, solar, batteries, something.. It doesn't spring into
existence out of the ether.

Sorry but you're wrong. This has happened before. It has to do with
access to the router/ISP's DNS server. When the connection is encrypted
the ISP has no control over your DNS lookups, cannot block them, slow
them, etc. Honestly you don't know what your talking about.

[Sqwertz]

Post by BYANYOTHER NAME

Post by Johann Beretta

Post by BYANYOTHER NAME
So internet was down. But interestingly I could STILL connect and
brows

er

Post by BYANYOTHER NAME
although much slower using TOR or any encrypted VPN. Why is that?

Obviously the internet was not down. It's not like your computer was
browsing by fucking telepathy. Your wifi may have been down, but then
it becomes obvious you were connection another way. Cellular?
Hardline? Ad-Hoc connection via another computer that did have a
connection? Hotspot?
You cannot use the internet if the "Internet is down". That's like
claiming you can use electricity when the electricity is out. If your
house has power when the power is out, then you're getting it another
way; generator, solar, batteries, something.. It doesn't spring into
existence out of the ether.

Sorry but you're wrong. This has happened before. It has to do with
access to the router/ISP's DNS server. When the connection is encrypted
the ISP has no control over your DNS lookups, cannot block them, slow
them, etc. Honestly you don't know what your talking about.

Wow. Just... Wow.

-sw

[BYANYOTHER NAME]

Post by Sqwertz

Post by BYANYOTHER NAME

Post by Johann Beretta

Post by BYANYOTHER NAME
So internet was down. But interestingly I could STILL connect and
brows

er

Post by BYANYOTHER NAME
although much slower using TOR or any encrypted VPN. Why is that?

Obviously the internet was not down. It's not like your computer was
browsing by fucking telepathy. Your wifi may have been down, but then
it becomes obvious you were connection another way. Cellular?
Hardline? Ad-Hoc connection via another computer that did have a
connection? Hotspot?
You cannot use the internet if the "Internet is down". That's like
claiming you can use electricity when the electricity is out. If your
house has power when the power is out, then you're getting it another
way; generator, solar, batteries, something.. It doesn't spring into
existence out of the ether.

Sorry but you're wrong. This has happened before. It has to do with
access to the router/ISP's DNS server. When the connection is

encrypted

Post by Sqwertz

Post by BYANYOTHER NAME
the ISP has no control over your DNS lookups, cannot block them, slow
them, etc. Honestly you don't know what your talking about.

Wow. Just... Wow.
-sw

GZOWEY, ONLY GZOWEY, anything else intelligent u have to say?

[Johann Beretta]

Post by Sqwertz

Post by BYANYOTHER NAME
Sorry but you're wrong. This has happened before. It has to do with
access to the router/ISP's DNS server. When the connection is encrypted
the ISP has no control over your DNS lookups, cannot block them, slow
them, etc. Honestly you don't know what your talking about.

Wow. Just... Wow.
-sw

I am not wrong. I own a freakin' ISP. Do you not understand what you
are saying? If the internet is "down", you cannot get on it. Down
could mean any number of things... Your hardline to your ISP was cut,
someone drove over your node (cable internet), etc etc.

I can assure you, when the internet is down, the signals to the VPN are
not floating along magically. If you can browse the internet then it's
not DOWN!

[BYANYOTHER NAME]

Post by Johann Beretta

Post by Sqwertz

Post by BYANYOTHER NAME
Sorry but you're wrong. This has happened before. It has to do with
access to the router/ISP's DNS server. When the connection is encrypted
the ISP has no control over your DNS lookups, cannot block them, slow
them, etc. Honestly you don't know what your talking about.

Wow. Just... Wow.
-sw

I am not wrong. I own a freakin' ISP. Do you not understand what you
are saying? If the internet is "down", you cannot get on it. Down
could mean any number of things... Your hardline to your ISP was cut,
someone drove over your node (cable internet), etc etc.
I can assure you, when the internet is down, the signals to the VPN are
not floating along magically. If you can browse the internet then it's
not DOWN!

You're just playing with semantics. By "down" I meant that no data
transfers are occurring because the DNS server at the ISP is blocking or
dropping them. Yeah I can connect, but you cannot do anything unless you
encrypt everything so the ISP cannot get it's hands on your DNS lookups.

Sorry I offended your sense of word definitions!

[Johann Beretta]

Post by BYANYOTHER NAME
You're just playing with semantics. By "down" I meant that no data
transfers are occurring because the DNS server at the ISP is blocking or
dropping them. Yeah I can connect, but you cannot do anything unless you
encrypt everything so the ISP cannot get it's hands on your DNS lookups.
Sorry I offended your sense of word definitions!

If you "encrypt your data" for DNS look-ups, then DATA TRANSFERS ARE
OCCURRING.

Initial exchanges of keys, for secure communications, OCCUR IN THE
CLEAR. The whole protocol operates in the clear. That's how it was designed.

You can't encrypt your data BEFORE you exchange temporary keys with the
remote computer/server/device.

Otherwise, it would be like writing the combo to a safe on a
sticky-note, putting the sticky note in the safe, closing and locking
it, and then mailing it to a friend.

How is he gonna open it?

Furthermore, when I turn off the internet for a customer (non-payment,
planned cancellation, etc) all the encrypted bullshit in the world isn't
going to sneak by the system because we shut off ALL data transfers to
the customer's IP address. Nothing in, nothing out. Even encrypted data
still has bits in the clear. DESTination IP address data must be visible
(internet has to know where to send that encrypted data) and there are a
handful of other bits (header sizes, payload sizes, ACK packets, NACK
packets, etc) that all must traverse in the clear. Even if you could
come up with a system that could obfuscate all of that, you MUST have
the IP address data in the clear. You cannot get around that. That's
what is blocked when you are shut-off BY ANYONE.

[BYANYOTHER NAME]

Post by Johann Beretta

Post by BYANYOTHER NAME
You're just playing with semantics. By "down" I meant that no data
transfers are occurring because the DNS server at the ISP is
blocking or dropping them. Yeah I can connect, but you cannot do
anything unless you encrypt everything so the ISP cannot get it's
hands on your DNS lookups.
Sorry I offended your sense of word definitions!

If you "encrypt your data" for DNS look-ups, then DATA TRANSFERS ARE
OCCURRING.
Initial exchanges of keys, for secure communications, OCCUR IN THE
CLEAR. The whole protocol operates in the clear. That's how it was designed.

My understanding of tor is that the DNS lookups are handled by tor
exclusively. The connection to the tor server might be in the clear but
the dns lookups are not. That is why I can surf using tor and when I do not
use it my dns lookups are blocked or thrown away because they go to the ISP
dns server, not tor. The content of my tor data transfers is encrypted by
the browser before it leaves my computer. The original post asked why this
was happening. THe most likely correct reply is that the ISP is blocking
access to DNS lookups at ITS servers. That is why I can still get web pages
using TOR and not otherwise. Correct me if I am wrong, I'm all ears.
The problem is a fucked up ISP that blocks or drops dns lookups to its
servers, hence the browser cannot find the web page you requested.
I was not talking about the connection to the initial tor hop. I was
talking about who does the dns lookup for that connection. It it's tor then
i get the page. If it's the isp I don't. Down can mean many things-isp dns
server is DOWN OR more likely incompetently managed. I guess you just like
to show your SUPERIOR knowledge about everything rather than trying to help
with the question.

Post by Johann Beretta
You can't encrypt your data BEFORE you exchange temporary keys with
the remote computer/server/device.
Otherwise, it would be like writing the combo to a safe on a
sticky-note, putting the sticky note in the safe, closing and locking
it, and then mailing it to a friend.
How is he gonna open it?
Furthermore, when I turn off the internet for a customer (non-payment,
planned cancellation, etc) all the encrypted bullshit in the world
isn't going to sneak by the system because we shut off ALL data
transfers to the customer's IP address. Nothing in, nothing out. Even
encrypted data still has bits in the clear. DESTination IP address
data must be visible (internet has to know where to send that
encrypted data) and there are a handful of other bits (header sizes,
payload sizes, ACK packets, NACK packets, etc) that all must traverse
in the clear. Even if you could come up with a system that could
obfuscate all of that, you MUST have the IP address data in the clear.
You cannot get around that. That's what is blocked when you are
shut-off BY ANYONE.

[Johann Beretta]

Post by BYANYOTHER NAME

Post by Johann Beretta

Post by BYANYOTHER NAME
You're just playing with semantics. By "down" I meant that no data
transfers are occurring because the DNS server at the ISP is
blocking or dropping them. Yeah I can connect, but you cannot do
anything unless you encrypt everything so the ISP cannot get it's
hands on your DNS lookups.
Sorry I offended your sense of word definitions!

If you "encrypt your data" for DNS look-ups, then DATA TRANSFERS ARE
OCCURRING.
Initial exchanges of keys, for secure communications, OCCUR IN THE
CLEAR. The whole protocol operates in the clear. That's how it was designed.

My understanding of tor is that the DNS lookups are handled by tor
exclusively. The connection to the tor server might be in the clear but
the dns lookups are not. That is why I can surf using tor and when I do not
use it my dns lookups are blocked or thrown away because they go to the ISP
dns server, not tor. The content of my tor data transfers is encrypted by
the browser before it leaves my computer. The original post asked why this
was happening. THe most likely correct reply is that the ISP is blocking
access to DNS lookups at ITS servers. That is why I can still get web pages
using TOR and not otherwise. Correct me if I am wrong, I'm all ears.
The problem is a fucked up ISP that blocks or drops dns lookups to its
servers, hence the browser cannot find the web page you requested.
I was not talking about the connection to the initial tor hop. I was
talking about who does the dns lookup for that connection. It it's tor then
i get the page. If it's the isp I don't. Down can mean many things-isp dns
server is DOWN OR more likely incompetently managed. I guess you just like
to show your SUPERIOR knowledge about everything rather than trying to help
with the question.

Superior knowledge? Yes.. I have over 25 years of low-level experience
with the internet. I have an ARIN #. I've been doing this for a long
time.

A DNS server or a web server or an FTP server are single nodes on the
internet. Not being able to reach them, specifically, may or may not
have anything to do with the internet as a whole.

Now, as far as your ISP's DNS server... I'm having a hard time wrapping
my head around your claim that the Landlord forgot to pay his bill. Are
you under the impression that the ISP blocks access to DNS as their
method of shutting down an account for non-payment? While this is....
certainly technically possible, it would be absolutely ineffective. One
can configure their computer to use any DNS server that permits inbound
connections. 1.1.1.1, 1.0.0.1, 8.8.8.8, and 4.4.4.4 are four examples of
DNS servers that permit anyone to connect, by design.

Those DNS servers (at least the first two) even offer DNS over HTTPS to
get around any ISP blockages.

Tor probably does have an internal DNS list, as you suggest, otherwise
it would not be able to resolve .onion addresses.

Is it possible that you are not able to browse the web outside of Tor
because your computer's DNS settings are incorrect or absent?

If you did, in fact, have misconfigured or incorrect DNS settings on
your PC you would have a hard (impossible) time getting anything to work
if you're typing "www.anything" whereas if you fired up Tor you'd be
using its internal, hard-coded, DNS servers.

Can you reach the internet from the command line? Using ping, for example.

I really don't think the ISP is cutting off access by disabling your DNS
lookups. It's simply ineffective for anyone with a modicum of internet
experience and would be detected almost immediately by anyone who
notices that "ping" works.

@EliteBook-8470p:~$ ping 1.1.1.1
PING 1.1.1.1 (1.1.1.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 1.1.1.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=55 time=51.3 ms
64 bytes from 1.1.1.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=55 time=24.3 ms
64 bytes from 1.1.1.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=55 time=188 ms
^C
--- 1.1.1.1 ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2002ms


@EliteBook-8470p:~$ nslookup www.tor.com
Server: 127.0.0.53
Address: 127.0.0.53#53

Non-authoritative answer:
www.tor.com canonical name = www.tor.com.cdn.cloudflare.net.
Name: www.tor.com.cdn.cloudflare.net
Address: 104.20.16.112
Name: www.tor.com.cdn.cloudflare.net
Address: 104.20.15.112


In the above example, nslookup used my internal DNS settings to decide
which server to query for www.tor.com. If my settings were wrong, I'd
have gotten an error message.

However, you can tell nslookup to use an external DNS server

@EliteBook-8470p:~$ nslookup

Post by BYANYOTHER NAME
server 1.1.1.1

Default server: 1.1.1.1
Address: 1.1.1.1#53

Post by BYANYOTHER NAME
www.tor.com

Server: 1.1.1.1
Address: 1.1.1.1#53

Non-authoritative answer:
www.tor.com canonical name = www.tor.com.cdn.cloudflare.net.
Name: www.tor.com.cdn.cloudflare.net
Address: 104.20.16.112
Name: www.tor.com.cdn.cloudflare.net
Address: 104.20.15.112

If one works and the other does not, then investigate your computer's
DNS settings. If those settings are correct for your ISPs DNS server IP
addresses, then yeah... Either the DNS server is down due to a fault or
you have the world's dumbest ISP :)

In the meantime, you can simply put 1.1.1.1 and 8.8.8.8 into your
computer's DNS settings and see if you can browse again.

[Sqwertz]

Path: not-for-mail
Newsgroups: alt.internet.wireless
Subject: Re: Landlord forgot to pay the Wifi Bill
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:51 -0700
Organization: None Of Your Business
Lines: 22
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 05:39:52 -0000 (UTC)
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:Iazky6LU4cmwfH5wnKFXxE0b1Zo=
Content-Language: en-US
Bytes: 2239
X-Received-Bytes: 2257
X-Received-Body-CRC: 2912638304

Post by Sqwertz

Post by BYANYOTHER NAME
Sorry but you're wrong. This has happened before. It has to do with
access to the router/ISP's DNS server. When the connection is encrypted
the ISP has no control over your DNS lookups, cannot block them, slow
them, etc. Honestly you don't know what your talking about.

Wow. Just... Wow.
-sw

I am not wrong. I own a freakin' ISP. Do you not understand what you
are saying? If the internet is "down", you cannot get on it. Down
could mean any number of things... Your hardline to your ISP was cut,
someone drove over your node (cable internet), etc etc.
I can assure you, when the internet is down, the signals to the VPN are
not floating along magically. If you can browse the internet then it's
not DOWN!

Don't be yelling at ME. I'm not the asshole here.

And there you are arguing with him again in the Trump thread <yawn>.
Take it somewhere else.

-sw

[Johann Beretta]

On 4/30/20 10:00 AM, Sqwertz wrote:
ling at ME. I'm not the asshole here.

Post by Sqwertz
And there you are arguing with him again in the Trump thread <yawn>.
Take it somewhere else.
-sw

I'll take it where I please.